Vernon Katz:  …Then there are two kinds of CC. You could have one with the automatic support of the Laws of Nature in ignorance of the mechanics of Natural Law and another…

MAHARISHI:   …who knows what is happening, right. This is the glory of knowledge. One could live freedom in life without much knowing and understanding – without knowing how and what of it. And one could live freedom in life knowing all about it.

So intellect, even so doesn’t play a part in the process of development, is no barrier in the state of realization. (laughs)  It (the intellect) is no barrier in the state of realization

Prince Blücher:   In the development from CC to GC, when the relativity becomes more transparent, is this transparency not also a sort of knowledge?

MAHARISHI:   To some extent. Actually that is on the level of life itself. And this knowledge is on the level of understanding.

Prince Blücher:  So that (“on the level of life itself”) would mean just seeing, thinking, behaving…

MAHARISHI:   …sleeping. Because sleeping doesn’t hold the understanding. Understanding falls out of the field of sleeping. But GC is continued even during sleep. Even tamas of sleep is not able to overshadow it. And once the tamas is not able to overshadow, then that is the state out off the three gunas, perpetual, eternal.

And then one’s life, whether active or passive – passive in deep sleep, active in dreaming and waking –  whether one’s life is active or passive, one is held fast on that level of eternity.

Vernon Katz:    When the Absolute can not be overshadowed by sleep, how about a relative state not been overshadowed by sleep. The Absolute is the same in GC, in CC, in everything. So it is only the Absolute which is not overshadowed. But the knowledge of GOD must be overshadowed in deep sleep?

MAHARISHI:    Because, if every aspect of activity could be held in the light of GOD, then every aspect of passivity of the deep sleep will also be held in the light of GOD (laughs) So, activity of the waking and passivity of the deep sleep, it doesn’t make a difference.

When the light of GOD permeates through activity, it permeates through passivity of the deep sleep. So it doesn’t matter.

Prince Blücher:  So what is the difference between the light of GOD in deep sleep and just the transcendence in deep sleep?

MAHARISHI:  Same thing. See, in Cosmic Consciousness  one feels the Self is experienced separate from activity in waking.  In deep sleep, the body is felt separate from the inner awareness – the (this) separateness dissolves.

Prince Blücher:  It is the separateness. Oh, I see. Then it makes sense.

MAHARISHI:   As the separateness dissolves in the waking state, the Self is no more separate from activity – both in the light of GOD.

There also, the deep sleep and the Self – no more separate. Both held fast in the light of GOD. Both held fast in the light of GOD.

 And that is turiyatitam. That is turiyatitam – transcending turiya, transcending turiya  (transcending TC)

 And for that  Bhagavad Gita says  `such a saint is scarce`.  Because, because, because,  the span of life is short. And the whole culture (the culturing of consciousness) takes such … it does take time. Culture takes time.

 For that the longest time of life is significant…